Webb sings Sullivan

This is KBACH’s First Take, and I'm Michael Keelan. I'm talking with tenor David Webb about his new solo album, Sullivan: Songs for Tenor. It's music by Arthur Sullivan. Most of the words are by Gilbert, but there are some other pieces on there, too. Congratulations on your debut solo album.

Thank you so much. It's really kind having me here.

The ensemble on the recording is the Academy of Ancient Music, which is primarily known for composers a hundred or more years before Sullivan. And I will say it's very successful under the baton of John Andrews. But how did they come to be the ensemble on the album?

Well, when we first had this first conversation with John Andrews, I think it was back in 2020 during the pandemic—I think it was actually even before that—but I had I said to him, "Look, no one's doing sort of these old-school recital albums anymore of a of a composer. And, you know, there are of course there are the Verdi, the Puccini ones, but no one's really done one of Sullivan's music, and especially Gilbert and Sullivan. And it's something that I've worked on a lot, and it would be really fun to do." And John was completely behind the idea. And his first idea, actually, was to sort of recreate something that might be a little bit more modern. So we spoke about using saxophones and sort of more modern instrumentation to kind of create a world which if it was performed now, what would happen, you know, if it was sort of written now. And then and then he suddenly came back to me and said, "Or we recreate what it was like in the sort of in the in the Savoy Theatre, in the salons, in the bandstands where his music would have been played, and we reach out to someone like the Academy of Ancient Music and see what they say." And we reached out to them, and they grabbed the opportunity with both hands. And the in fact, the whole recording process with them was just so much fun. They I think for a group that often plays doesn't play that sort of music, it just was a change of scenery and a change of tone and musical gesture, and they just they grabbed it with both hands and went for it. It was and I think the results are evident on the on the disc.

There's a small but very fervent following of Gilbert and Sullivan—we always call them G&S in the States. What is their cultural significance today in the UK? Is their music known to a large percent of the population? Like, would the tunes be recognizable to people, or the plot points of the operettas? What is that context there?

I think that's a really good question. I think there is you're an absolute you're absolutely right, there are stalwart fans of the of G&S. And, in fact, this summer I'm heading up to Buxton where the International G&S Festival takes place. And I mean, the as with any fans, they, you know, they're obsessed with it and quite rightly so. And the music and the and the stories are they are silly and playful and joyous. And I think one of the things that keeps it interesting now is that there are the different productions that are being done of these pieces, which have been done in a certain way. I know that The Mikado itself, for example, which has it's set in Japan, but there's lots of things that people have felt uncomfortable with setting it in a certain way. So now that's being set in different ways. And I think with regards to the tunes you're talking about, there are lots of sort of famous ones. There's "Three Little Maids from School Are We" from The Mikado. There's the Major-General's song from The Pirates—from The Pirates of Penzance, which I've actually I actually recorded. As I said recently, it was it was a retirement plan because I can't sing Frederick for the rest of my life, so I have to think about what I'm going to do after that. It's one of the few places, when you look around opera houses in the in the UK, most opera shows will probably have six to eight shows in a run, whereas Gilbert and Sullivan is looking at, you know, 12 to 16 shows in a run. People still love it. It's always sold out. It's and it's always so well-received. So I think it's a sort of staple of the kind of classical music foundation, I guess, of the of the UK, definitely.

You have a lot of the famous hits from the best-known operettas. Which of the tenor parts of Sullivan benefits from a fully trained voice like yours, as opposed to a music theater voice, which can still work perfectly well? I remember my university production of Pirates had a music theater major singing Frederick. But surely some of the parts are more responsive to classical training, is that right?

I think you're right. But I but I think that they they can be done in both ways. And and that was part of what I wanted to show with because with my voice was that I mean, I love I love being in these shows. I love the dialogue. I love I love the characters. For me, character is such an important part of it. But I think vocally, Pirates, Frederick has got a really, you know, there's some great money notes, you know, a couple of B-flats in there. Even in um in H.M.S. Pinafore for Ralph Rackstraw, there's a couple of big money notes there. I think you can get away with it because of the orchestration of having that sort of musical theater sound if you wanted to. And one of the amazing things about being involved in the Gilbert and Sullivan Festival is that they have some fiendish dance routines. And we only have a generally a week, you know, eight days to put on a show. So I think if you are musical theater trained, being involved in a show like that means that you're probably quicker than an opera singer to pick up the dance routines, even if you don't necessarily have the vocal heft or the ability in some of the roles. What you would be able to do in that in that sense of time would be great. I mean, I I am not the best dancer in the world, but I have I can dance. And uh in fact, you know, I was I was thinking that in the last the last Pirates that I did, we had this whole concept where um the director actually added a dance break in the middle of "Ah, Leave Me Not to Pine." In that beautiful duet between Mabel and Frederick, and she did it as a sort of Fred and Ginger dance routine. And it was absolutely beautiful, and it was very  touching and very charming. And uh and those moments really can lift the music and the storyline off the page. So it's I think being a musical theater student and doing this sort of stuff would be just as useful as being an opera singer and doing it as well.

Does it generally work to sing those sentimental moments entirely sincerely, and then you just let the lyrics take care of the humor of it?

Absolutely. I think I think with any with any comedy or anything like that, you play the situation. If you try and play the jokes, they won't land. But if you play the if you play the sincerity of the situation—I mean, I remember the first time I I was a young artist at English National. My first role for English National Opera was Frederick. And I remember they had sort of been testing me. I'd understudied a few roles, but I wasn't yet a Harewood Artist, which is their young artist program. And they said to me, you know, "Would you come and sing the 'Oh, Is There Not One Maiden Breast'?" And I remember singing it, and I'd learned it obviously very well, and I'd, you know, gone through the coachings and stuff. But I I think I sang it so uh I think I was actually probably so scared in the audition that I wasn't really emoting, I was just singing the words. And actually, they couldn't stop laughing because, you know, he's there saying, "Oh, is there not one maiden here whose homely face and bad complexion..." But I was saying it in with such sort of sincerity that they couldn't stop laughing. And I think probably for me, I was very lucky I did I did perform it that way, and then I and then I got the role to do it. So I think always playing the situation is is what is what strengthens it. It's so well-written by Gilbert, and Sullivan sets it to such great music.

And you include some of Sullivan's serious music, too. I hadn't heard the sacred oratorio excerpts before. Do you think his understanding or use of the voice is any different in those pieces?

I think that's a really good question. And for example, the "Refrain Thy Soul from Weeping," it's very much like um Mendelssohn's St. Paul. It really makes me think of that. And the way that he writes for the voice in that, it's these long, flowing lines. But it's very similar to other aspects of it. And certainly in the in um in The Golden Legend, it is "The Sea," the way that he writes that. It's set with him sort of being drunk, and it's sort of quite um lugubrious, the sound, and there's lots of semitonal movement vocally from the score. And that's very different to anything I'd sort of done before in the G&S world. And uh "The Lost Chord," which I think is probably his most famous piece away from the Gilbert and Sullivan works, I didn't realize that in I think it was 1888, it was the first actually recorded sort of piece of classical music um and it was also sung by Caruso at the Met for um the Titanic memorial concert. Um and it was this sort of pop star pop song of the day that everyone loved and really enjoyed. And he wrote it apparently by his dying brother's bedside. And so, for me, that was the tune and the sort of the fact that it comes back a few times and then it just builds to this big climax at the end, it really moved me. And I think knowing the sentiment behind it and knowing that sort of feeling of fortitude and very directly expressed in that song.

I wanted to ask if you have a favorite among the operettas—the G&S—as a listener? For me, it was always The Yeomen of the Guard. Uh but you have a very intimate knowledge of all of them. What do you think?

Well, it's funny that you say The Yeomen of the Guard because I I literally spoke to someone about um about that piece yesterday and said how I remember doing it for the first time in in one of the opera houses down in the UK. And the first time I heard the entr'acte from just before Act II, I it sounded like Mascagni to me. I remember just thinking, "This is incredible." And I think I think Yeomen of the Guard is sort of the most like operatic of them, if that makes sense, what musically speaking. I think that's what a lot of people think. And I really, I mean, playing Fairfax, you know, he's such an idiot. He's just so proud and smug and the way that he, you know, just sort of takes the girls away from everyone. He's just like, "Sure, I'll just do that. I'll just do this," and whatever. I like playing him because often as a tenor you just you're basically just telling everyone you love each other you love them and you're sort of going after them. So playing someone like that's interesting for me. But to listen to, for me, I'm a bit of a classic, really. I mean, Pirates, I just love I always love Pirates. I think that's an affirmation because of having um sung Frederick probably the most of all of the roles. But yeah, Pirates, I think there's not a there's not a weak tune. They're all bangers. They're all absolutely brilliant to listen to and to be a part of on stage.

Well, this is a great debut solo album from tenor David Webb. Thanks so much for talking with us on First Take today.

Thank you for having me. It's been a real pleasure.